Returning fish

[keith]

I must admit that I like to eat fish - and since I catch so few of them anyway I don't feel guilty about taking a couple home with me. If they're small then obviously I try to return them alive, but if they're badly hooked (deep down or in the gills) then it is hardly worth returning them for they will surely die.
If they're big enough to eat then I take home anything badly hooked - if they are easy to unhook then I generally let them go. I caught a whiting last week that had a very obvious hook mark in the side of its mouth, so someone had recently let it go. Since I had only hooked it in the other side of its mouth I was also able to return it. That just shows that they can survive and continue to feed if they are handled carefully and returned.
When I was 'into' coarse fishing I nearly always used barbless hooks since everything was returned. The only times I used barbed hooks was when carp fishing - for some reason they managed to escape barbless hooks when I used them!
If you intend to return a fish you've caught then try to handle it with wet hands - dry hands, or worse still a dry cloth, can do fatal damage to a fish's skin by removing scales and mucus which allows in infection. When I was a trout farmer (for 19 years) we handled the fish frequently during grading operations and always used wet hands or rubber gloves - it made economic sense to injure the fish as little as possible!
What do others think?
Keith.

[Tyke]

Keith

With over 25 years of fishing experience majority on the fly, the advice I was given many, many moons back was.

"If the fish is hooked deep in the mouth or throat the fisherman should cut the leader instead of trying to remove the hook. In doing so the leader should be cut as close to the eye of the hook as possible. The hook will rust out or dislodge from the fish's mouth in a few days".

And I hear this repeated from a lot of top anglers, I include sea anglers in that last comment.

I do prefer to cut the line as close to the hook as possible, unless its obvious that the fish has no chance of recovery, (heavy bleeding from the gill area).

I can rest easy knowing I've done my best, and if the fish does die it will be fed upon by others thus from death comes life.

I have no doubt others will disagree with my statement, but this is something I will continue to do.

With 95% of my caught fish I practise C&R (catch & release) especially brown trout, salmon, sea trout & bass.

[MarinerKenny]

It's about time that Barbless hooks were readily available to Sea Anglers. I would use them all the time.
Would give you a little more satisfaction landing a fish on a barbless hook - fair enough, it gives the fish a better chance of getting off, but isn't that what our sport is about ?
The number of hooks that I have lost by cutting the snoods as close to the eye of the hook as poss on a deep hooked fish is unreal, but if it gives the fish chance to fight another day then I will carry on doing so.

[Tala]

I am one of the sad anglers that do not eat fish at all (urgh!!!! horrid stuff) so 90% of the fish I catch I return to the water (the 10% I keep have to be over 3lb, give to family members).
If the fish is lipped not a problem, If its hooked deep I to cut the line as close to the hook as possible, dont know if the fish will survive or not but it looks good when they swim off.
Its sad to see people taking home little codling less than a 1lb, whats the point? after gutting and filleting you would need a carrier bag full for a sandwich.
Dont get me wrong I know some do take a couple home for the cat, but some just take them for the hell of it .
But then again I dont eat fish so I may be a bit bias.
Good fishing lads, but do it with a concience...

[keith]

Good points raised - at least I started some discussion! ;
Cutting the line may well work with small hooks, but with large sea hooks it may take a long time for them to break down. In the meantime, the fish may be restricted or prevented from feeding - starvation is not a good death!
We have to use our own judgement in these things and if you think the fish is still otherwise healthy and has a good chance of survival then by all means let it go. If, on the other hand, it appears to be still, or almost so, it may already be dead.
A fish's heart is situated very close to its throat and stomach so pulling on a deeply swallowed hook can make the hook puncture the heart or the main blood vessels between it and the gills. This explains why some deeply hooked fish are landed already just about dead!
Years ago, when I was a teenager, I used to fish for pike using deadbaits. I still remember one time, having successfully removed a trebble from deep inside a pike AND walked it round the shallows for ten minutes to get it breathing again, how it then swam off strongly - much to my delight ;D
Unfortunately, ten minutes after that I saw it belly-up on the bottom in six feet of water and it flipped and wriggled about for twenty minutes before eventually dying. I cried
I gave up using trebble hooks that day and started using size 4/0 sea hooks - with barbs flattened. I still caught pike and they were MUCH easier to release!
I'm planning to go fishing on Thursday evening - I'll flatten the barbs on one rod and fish barbed on the other and see if it makes any difference.
Keith.

[Tala]

Very good points well put over Keith
Like you said "its down to our own judgement wether the fish will survive or not", but the fish has a better chance in the water than getting its head bashed in on the nearest rock.
When I fish started fishing 16 years ago I was one of the eager lads that used to take everything home, but if Im honest the majority just ended up in the bin.
If a few words on here can influence a few novice anglers in the right way to got about catch and release its got to be worth it!!!!!
Nothing worse than seeing a fish u have returned to the water go belly up, but even the most experienced anglers get it wrong sometimes.
At least they are going back into the feeding chain, not brilliant I know but at least they are doing some good and thats got to be better than ending up in the nearest landfill site.

[MikeR]

I have to admit that if a fish takes a hook down deep my preference is to dispatch it as quickly and humanely as possible. As it has already been mentioned, starvation is not a nice death. Another point is what happens if you cut the line on a small fish and a bigger fish eats it? One sharp hook in a good fishes stomach!

[Tyke]

Some good points raised, all my fly and pike hooks are barbless, I think I will apply this to my sea fishing hooks.

Starvation, it has been scientifically proven that hooks will only remain in all fish from 2 to 3 days, and that fish are very adapt at removing foreign articles from within.

Big fish eats little fish with hook in? that has crossed my mind on a few occasions. An american scientist explained that fish handle crabs no problem, (though I feel that the fish seek out crabs in thier soft stage) and certain fish with horrendous spines are taken as food and the predator fish deals with these ok.

Take a look at how salmon survive after seal attacks, fish are a lot more hardy then we give them credit for.

Excellent post by Kieth started off a good debate, and I feel that Tala's words weigh it up for me.

"but the fish has a better chance in the water than getting its head bashed in on the nearest rock"

[WillW]

Interesting read for me, being newish to fishing. I have often wondered about survivability of fish going back with hooks in or having had deep hooks removed. If in any doubt I tend to cut the snood and put the fish back as quickly as possible, and as others have said if the fish does die at least it is going back into tthe food chain.

Good stuff for a new site!

WillW

[keith]

What a brilliant response - thank you to everyone who has replied! I'm so glad I started this thread - it just shows that there ARE some intelligent sea anglers in this region - know what I mean
I was looking at a certain other site this morning and had to wade through an ocean of abusive and derogatory messages to find anything worthwhile
Cheers everyone!
Keith.

[Tyke]

The snippet below is from Mike Trusshell's web site

www.worldseafishing.com

<quote>

"If a flatfish has got a hook down deep, then it's best to cut the hook off at the knot and free the fish with the hook still in. Consider that flatfish, in fact all fish, will eat broken mussel and razorfish shells and hard backed crab with ease, and you realise just how insignificant a hook is to a fish. Evidence suggests that fish can shed a hook within hours anyway, providing it is a bronze pattern and will corrode. Coated or commercially plated pattern hooks and stainless steel hooks should never be used". <unquote>

[Tala]

Kieth m8, that other site you speak of, is a site most people on here have used (some still do, not me anymore) because it was always a very friendly informative site. At the mo, one person in particular is getting a great deal of pleasure winding everybody up, only takes on rotten apple to spoil the whole barrel.
Anyway back to proper fishing eh!!!!
Can anybody recommend the best type of hooks to use for the cause of conservation, at present I use vikings (normally 4/0 and 5/0), are these likely to corrode quickly? I used to use nordik bends but cannot find them anymore.
Is there any evidence to show which hooks corrode the quickest in salt water?

[Mike]

ok lads here's a little tip for you.
If you are fishing up high like Whitby West and you have a fish to return instead of chucking it over or dropping it, just put one of the wires of your sinker through the gill and then lower it to the water.
I got this tip over 30 years ago.

[Tala]

I tried that once m8, but the 10lber would not stay on the gripper wires keep falling off ;D

[Mike]

Tala said:

I tried that once m8, but the 10lber would not stay on the gripper wires keep falling off ;D

Same as that 3ft Rockling I got.